From: Richard Kwarciany (kwar at fnal.gov) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:08:28 I have the 12" brakes on my 85 MCSS, and I'm very happy with them. The difference in stopping power is very dramatic. The pedal feel is great under hard braking. No more "hard spots" or fade, and no more need to put both feet on the brake pedal. You will need the following parts from a 78 Caprice Station Wagon. Other B bodies with 5" bolt pattern also work, but I don't know the year cut-off. All wagons had the 5" patten (12" rotors), but not all sedans did. Many had the 4-3/4" bolt pattern and 11" rotors. You'd think that 77 would be the same, but they have different bearings. 1) Spindles & dust covers 2) Calipers & bolts 3) inner & outer wheel bearings, bearing washers, nuts & dust caps 4) Wheel seals 5) Brake pads You need rotors from a 90 Camaro w/12" rotors (1LE). You will also need the aftermarket upper control arms for this application, or you will end up with way too much camber. Full size and mid size cars take the same upper and lower ball joints, and have the same taper on the tie-rod ends, so the parts bolt right on. I'm using the stock steal 15x7 SS wheels with no clearance problems. The stock lug nuts work fine. The swap does not significantly affect ride height or wheel offset requirements. The Camaro rotors are obviously just borrowed from the full size car, since they appear to be identical castings, and are even machined the same. The only difference is that the Camaro rotors are drilled for a 4-3/4" bolt pattern, and are fitted with metric studs. --- Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:19:49 From: Stuart Ing (stuarti at lava.net) These cars are canidates for the parts needed for the 12" brake swap, if you don't feel like buying all the parts new. This comes straight from the Global West catalog, so it sould be good. Buick, Pontiac, or Chevy full size 1978-1992 Caddy Seville and Deville 1978-1992 execpt for limos Olds Delta 88 coupe and Sedan 1978-1992 Buick Riveria 1977-1979 If you go the junkyard route, then make sure to actually measure the discs as these cars also came with 11" disc. These discs are drilled for a 5x5 bolt pattern while the monte is 5x4.75. So, you can either get the camaro 1le discs which are the correct bolt pattern and metric studs, or get the discs redrilled for the smaller bolt pattern. --- From: Aaron B. Armendariz (zirad at k2nesoft.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:43:13 These are the items needed for a Hotchkis suspension mod with the 12 inch rotors: Bilstein shocks fronts 2ea, pn. B360949 rears 2ea, pn. B460929 Eibach Springs (call Hotchkis) General Motors front spindle, left 1ea, pn. 14012589 front spindle, right, 1 ea, pn. 14012590 1LE 12-inch rotors, 2 ea, pn. 18016035 Dustshield, left, 1 ea, pn. 344023 Dustshield, right, 1 ea, pn. 344024 Dustcaps, 2 ea, pn. 1400344 Washers, 2 ea, pn. 457707 Nuts, 2 ea, pn. 378137 Calipar bolts, 4 ea, pn. 5463495 Caliper, left, 1 ea, pn. 18015427 Caliper, right, 1 ea, pn. 18015427 Wheel bearings and seals. **Note: 70-81 camaro spindles and 11 inch rotors will also fit this car. Hotchkis Perfomance upper trailing arms, 2ea, pn. hpta02 lower trailing arms, 2 ea, pn. hpta01 trailing arm braces, 2 ea, pn. hpbr01 tubular upper A arms, 2 ea, pn. hpaa01 Machined tie rod sleeves, 2ea, pn. hptr01 Make sure that you replace the stock master cylinder with ont that is compatible with the calipers being used. A unit from a '74 camaro fits right in. It fits the power booster and the brake line fittings on the monte. Other master cylinders will fit the booster, but be aware that later model master cylinders require metric style fittings. source: Car Craft June 93 "armed and dangerous"
From: George Dumpit (george at juniper.net) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:48:27 -0800 Parts list used: Front upper control arm:.....Hotchkis (1101) Master Cylinder:.............86'Caprice/Impala - Raybestos (39328) Calipers:....................86'Caprice/Impala - Raybestos (RC4123-R, RC4124-L) Rotors:......................F-body 1LE - Raybestos (5994) Outer bearings:..............(A3) Inner bearings:..............(A6) Inner bearing seals:.........(8871) Spindles & Back plates:......86'Impala - Salvage yard cores Brake hoses:.................Russell DOT S/S braided hoses Front coil Springs:..........3rd Gen F-body - TRW (CS5662) (706 ft/lbs) Last weekend I finally got around to doing the 12" brake conversion on the Grim Reaper. It was pretty much a straight forward R/R procedure. Yes, I went with the Hotchkis upper control arms instead of the Global West arms. As Brian said in his post about paint shops, go with your instincts. Bottom line is that GW wasn't up front with me with their schedule and lost my business. Since I don't do auto crosses, or any serious canyon carving, the Hotchkis arms fit my requirements just fine. I had purchased the Spindle/backing plate/rotor/caliper assembly from the salvage yard a few months ago. The only thing that I didn't use were the rotors, because they had the 5 on 5 pattern. Since my sister works for the caliper manufacturing division of Raybestos, the calipers were rebuilt for free. The Impala/Caprice calipers are huge single piston calipers, in comparison to the stock single piston Monte Carlo calipers. I also got the 1LE rotors, and the Impala/Caprice master cylinder from my sister, so the prices quoted on my web bio, are about 1/4 of retail cost. I originally was going to go with the 1LE calipers, and master cylinder, but the mounting of the Dual piston 1LE calipers required the spindles from a 1LE equipped F-body, so it wouldn't work with the Impala/Caprice spindles that I already had. The master cylinder also was different, the brake fittings were in-board, instead of out-board, and were different sizes. I had painted the all of the parts prior to installation the weekend prior so all I had to do was the R/R last weekend. Taking my time, the whole R/R took most of the day. Total work time was around 4 hours, but quizzical neighbors and a few parts store runs, made it a day project. ;-) I had to R/R the coil springs twice because the car didn't sit at the ride height that I wanted. I initially just cut half a turn off of the replacement coils, which wasn't enough, so I cut a total of 1 turn off. Total R/R just for taking off the coils, cutting them, and reinstalling was 1 hr. (this is with air tools) The front end, from the ground to the top of the fender is 26" (27.25" rear, w/bell tech 5100 coils, 1 coil cut off). The guys at the alignment shop were totally oogling over the Reaper.. ;-) In fact I thought that I would never get out of there. The toe-in will be totally off when you install the new spindles, so eye-ball them as close as you can and then get the car aligned as soon as you complete the R/R. My eye balls were 2 degrees out on both sides of the car.. 8-) Hopefully the pictures that I took of the R/R turn out. It was kinda getting over cast when I was doing the upgrade, so I don't know if there was sufficient lighting. I will post them as soon as I can get them back and scanned. Handling/ Braking impressions: I am thoroughly impressed with this upgrade. The braking is awesome in comparison with the stock setup. The stock setup was good, but for those of you that have added more ponies to your cars, I highly recommend getting your brakes upgraded also. I still haven't installed the new master cylinder, and I'm really impressed with the braking of the upgrade. I don't what the differences are between the old master cylinder, and the new master cylinder, but I will post my findings, if any as soon as I get the new one in. I thought that the stiffer spring rate was going to be a little to stiff, but it isn't any more stiffer than an F-body with stock suspension. It's firm, but not unbearable. The stiffer coils, the negative camber characteristics of the Hotchkis tubular upper arms, after market anti- sway bars, and the comfortable valving of the Monroe shocks, have made, IMHO, an awesome handling car that's very comfortable on city streets. The Reaper may not be able to hang the corners with Dave's and Jenni's Intimidator, but I know that I wouldn't be *too* far behind.. ;-) If you don't want your car to handle better, but don't really want to go with a higher spring rate, I would recommend going with a replacement spring from an S-series chevy pickup (TRW-5660) (639 ft/lbs). According to the How-To Section steering/suspension by Steve Orlin, the S-series spring will lower the vehicle somewhere between stock ride height and 1" from stock. I don't know what the braking differences would be between the Baer system and my upgrade, but dollar for dollar, the 12" Impala/Caprice conversion is a winner! Especially for a daily driven street car... ;-)